Former Rare Dev Say There’s Not An Audience For A New Banjo-Kazooie
Former Rare Dev Say There’s Not An Audience For A New Banjo-Kazooie
by FrodoSam4Ever
47 Comments
Swerdman55
If there’s no audience for Banjo-Kazooie, then I am dead.
Dukemon102
Grant Kirkhope was never a dev….
[deleted]
[deleted]
TheVibratingPants
That’s bullshit because if there can be an audience for something as mediocre as Yooka Laylee, then Banjo can have its time again.
Riomegon
I don’t know what this article claims but there’s a hour long interview with the producer and a few other devs and also the composer kirkhope talking about the games 25 year history.
They talk about the development cycle being very hard to reproduce to make a new entry and it’s something they’re not all that interested in chasing after, they’ve moved on.
There’s also a VGC accompanying article as well that details what they said… So once again, dunno wtf this article claims but that’s not quite in their words.
A few people won’t do for a company to make a whole game. The sales numbers must be HUGE for that. Maybe the former dev is right.
FreshHotPoop
What the fuck are they talking about
devenbat
Since most people didn’t actually read the article. It’s a quote from Grant Kirkhope, not a dev, but rather the composer
And here’s what he actually said
“I can’t really speak for Gregg (Mayles, Rare’s creative director) but he’s really the custodian of the franchise. He doesn’t really like to look back and tread over old ground, so I don’t think he’s ever been bothered about doing anything else with the franchise. He’d rather move on to new experiences – as far as he’s concerned, he’s been there, done that”.
“I think Rare would be open to somebody if they found the right team, but I don’t feel like that team exists. Also, I’m not convinced the audience is there either.”
So, yeah, clickbait article. Kirkhope just said he’s not convinced the audience exists, not that it is for sure not there.
Cronus41
Maybe this is part of the reason he’s a former Rare dev. Don’t listen to this man, he cray.
CaptainZackstuf
To former rare dev,
The fuck you just say?!
From everyone.
media_philosophy
The first Yooka Laylee did alright. I like both N64 Banjos as much as the next millennial and I see their point.
CLYDEFR000G
If banjo was to get a new entry in the series what could be some new themes for worlds? I feel like they tried with 1 and 2 to not repeat worlds. They’ve done, Christmas, Halloween, Egypt, Mayan, shipyard, pirate island etc.
Some that come to mind:
– kazoo farm (world where kazooie grew up, classic old McDonald had a farm kinda vibe)
– banjo’s bayou (world where banjo grew up Louisiana souther style theme)
– Roman coliseum world
– valentine valley (world themed on love)
– some circus themed world
– casino world to pay homage to yooka laylee
pocket_arsenal
Why don’t people actually name drop the dev in these headlines? Is it because they think it will gain less traction when they find out it’s just the series composer? No offense to Grant Kirkhope, he’s a lovely man, but his reasoning seems to be that he doesn’t have that many twitter followers, which is insane to me, twitter is but a fraction of the general audience and a lot of people are giving up on it anyway, and not that music composers aren’t important, but the number of people following a series composer is absolutely not indicative of the series popularity.
LoveSikDog
What a load of crap.. What it should read is “Brain dead music guy could careless what you like and is happy with trying to recapture the magic while failing hard at doing it”..
That’s better..
tinyhorsesinmytea
If Microsoft had a talented team make a new Banjo platformer that reviewed well, I think it would sell. It also doesn’t have to be some super high budget game. It would be the perfect mid-budget kind of title and would bring some much needed variety to their first party lineup. If they played their cards right, Banjo-Kazooie could be their own Mario or Ratchet & Clank. Instead they just straight abandoned the series just because fans didn’t want what the word thing they did with Nuts & Bolts and that sucks.
I thought the point of buying Rare was to bolster their first party lineup with some great IP but instead they just sat on it and let it become almost irrelevant to new generations. I don’t get it.
Payohloh
As someone who wasn’t a gamer during the collectathon era, I’d agree tbh. Collectathon platformers seem to me like a 90s fad and I don’t see them having much success attracting an audience that wasn’t already there in the 90s.
naynaythewonderhorse
I’m going to actually give this a bit of thought, and try to rationalize the line of thinking.
First let me point out that this subreddit has bias in terms of seeing this as “a sure hit” when you’re in an echo chamber for fans.
Let’s make an assumption: The game would be Xbox/PC Exclusive.
Now, yes. Yooka-Laylee had a bit of an audience, but the fact is that being multi-platform helped. A LOT. It was able to be played by people on every platform, and not just Xbox.
Xbox IS selling less than PS5, it’s also not exactly a console that is marketed towards a more casual crowd. Yeah, you got Super Lucky’s Tale, but that’s about it.
Furthermore platformers are not the genre that they were back in 1997/2000. Plain and simple. Yes, Mario sells (he always has) and remakes do, but a new entry in a series that’s exclusive to a platform that’s not selling well?
Look, I doubt that this is just an opinion of a guy who made that statement up Willy-nilly. Companies do marketing research, and know what people want and don’t want. After the last game failed (regardless of why) it probably put a damper on anyone at rare thinking Banjo was gonna sell.
I could go on.
Banjo-Tooie is my favorite game of all time. I’d love to see a sequel, but I agree that the audience would be small.
MBCnerdcore
3D platformer fans have that new IP from the sonic mania people coming, right?
hectoByte
I mean, I don’t think he is wrong. Yooka Laylee came out and it seems like very few people liked it despite the fact it was pretty much what a modern Banjo Kazooie game would be. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that either, the average taste changes all the time and the average person no longer wants collect-a-thon platformers.
magikarp-sushi
That’s a load of bullshit for a headline.
Typical rage bait these days
timrtabor123
Banjo has a massive economic handicap that is being tied to a platform brand that infamously doesn’t attract folks that play more than one or two types of game a year (usually racing, FPS, sports, or WRPGs) and historically doesn’t care to expand outside that niche. Crash fans better pray the buyout doesn’t go through since if you think Activision is a COD factory now wait until they ONLY have to worry about putting out a console selling COD every gen and don’t feel a need to put out other things as insurance in the event COD stops being a golden goose.
xMrMonopolyguyx
GIVE ME A NEW VIVA PINIATA
Famous-Reference-103
Me sitting here with all the Rare games and stuff I bought and after supporting Yooka Laylee:
“Am, Am I just a clown?”
Mrredlegs27
Just re-master it and call it a day. Easy money.
BlackBullZWarrior
Make a AAA Banjo game an exclusive to a Nintendo console and I guarantee you Nintendo buyers will come out and turn it into a 3 million seller
sadgirl45
I’d buy it I miss these kind of games I’m not really a big fan of modern gaming all open world empty grind shit. Very few titles I still like
dekuweku
missing qualifier “on Xbox”
SandersDelendaEst
He’s right.
Aside from fans of the original game, who the hell would it appeal to? Who plays mascot platformers these days besides Mario, and the handful of sonic weirdos? Sure we got Kirby… and Ratchet and Clank I guess. But it’s just not the genre it was.
eyebrowless32
Yeah, platformers never sell anymore (looks at the millions of mario games that sell) ah, nevertheless
The truth is, they wouldnt know how to make a good game that lives up to and exceeds expectations. They would need to innovate in compelling and worthwhile ways. And i dont think anyone at rare has come up with one they want to invest in yet.
gaanch
CONKERS NEW FURDAY
mighty-ghost
I recall him saying something similar during an explanation for the why (the criminally underrated and over hated) Banjo Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts was overhauled from its original design (traditional 3D action/platform game) into a game with more a focus on vehicle construction that we ended up with.
I don’t think he’s wrong, it’s just important to consider the context in which he’s saying it.
That generation was a massive shift in terms of how games were made and what audiences were looking for, so for Rare to create a game with an extra element to make it stand out is ultimately a move I (and I’m sure many others) can understand.
The sad fact is in 2008, 3D action platformers (with the exception of stuff like Super Mario Galaxy) simply weren’t the money makers they used to be, so for the game to have a shot at all, the devs did what Rare did best; they experimented.
Some would say they went way too far (I’d argue not coz I genuinely like Nuts & Bolts) but it does give perspective. But that was then.
Cut to now and things have changed with games like the Crash and Spyro remasters, Yooka Laylee, A Hat in Time and the upcoming Penny’s Big Breakaway, there’s definitely a few popping up, but they’re still not the juggernaut, genre-defining pioneers that the games of the late 90’s were; they’re RECAPTURING the magic, not innovating, because there’s only so much the 3D platform genre can do.
The big money makers atm are games with a focus on online multiplayer, so that’s where a lot of resources in the industry are going. Games are expensive to make nowadays, far more than they used to be, so it only makes sense to follow the money.
So with that in mind, you can understand where Kirkhope’s coming from. While a dedicated few would certainly cherish a new game (myself included like holy s*** I’d kill a man for Banjo 3) it just wouldn’t be enough to justify the cost it would take to develop it.
And who knows? Maybe Penny’s Big Breakaway will come out and break sales records, starting a genre focus shift among developers and causing more big-budget 3D platform games to be made, maybe it’d even catch Microsoft’s eyes enough for them to put Rare or whoever else onto developing a new Banjo.
Hell, the big reason they had Double Helix games make the 2013 Killer Instinct game, the first in decades, was entirely off the back of the enormous success of Street Fighter 4 (which many attribute to ‘resurrecting’ the genre in the late 2000’s), so with that in mind, a similar thing could happen.
But for now, the 3D platformer genre’s a quiet one, thus Banjo Kazooie, a pioneering game series of the genre, will remain quiet too.
bongo1138
How did Yooka-Laylee do? Moderately okay, right? He’s probably not wrong, it may be similar to Mirrors Edge where there’s a loud but small audience. I could be wrong, but I’d rather see a remake first.
Suplexfiend
I agree with this.
bwoah07_gp2
So today I’ve seen headlines that there’s no audience for Banjo-Kazooie and F-Zero would be too expensive to make, and it has been outclassed by Mario Kart.
A good day for retro Nintendo gaming fans. 😅
Unrully_Rully
Being an Xbox exclusive is what will kill the game. There’s no hope there for that type of game. It’ll need to be released to the other consoles as well to have a chance
DocBrutus
But there is a new audience for Conkers Bad Fur Day
FrighteningWorld
A Hat in Time has sold more than a million copies across platforms and was largely inspired by Banjo Kazooie as well as Gamecube era adventure games. There is definitely a hunger for creative third person platformers, they just need a strong sense of identity and a world that is fun to explore.
Dopesmoker402
I mean he is not wrong even in smash banjo got the lowest kind of engagement. He was a waste of slot. You barely see anyone play that thing compared to any other franchise that does have a vibrant or at least a consistent fanbase
nimrodhellfire
Banjo basically is a (very easy and kid friendly) 3D Metroidvania. Considering how many Metroidvania games get released per year, there definitely is an audience.
mierecat
As someone who grew up right after the collect-a-thon era I agree. That’s a really specific type of game that a really only a specific type of player cares about anymore. I don’t see anyone my age getting hyped for any games like that, it’s always people older than me. Mascot platformers are also kind of dead. Given the last few high profile games in this style had to be crowd funded, and still didn’t even sell very well if I remember correctly, I don’t think there’s an audience big enough for a major studio to invest in it.
StarWolf478
I’m not even personally a fan of Banjo-Kazooie, yet I disagree.
You know why? Because Mario Odyssey plays more like a Banjo-Kazooie game than it does a Mario game in my opinion. I call it Banjo-Threeie. It is why I personally did not like Mario Odyssey because I’m not a fan of the Banjo-Kazooie style of gameplay, but I know that I’m in the minority on that. Many people loved Mario Odyssey and those same people would love a new Banjo-Kazooie.
jjmawaken
I think there’s an audience for it. I wonder how well Yooka Laylee sold?
Edit: also, maybe because they are on the wrong platform… XBox isn’t the right audience for it but if they were still with Nintendo I bet it would sell a ton.
ModerateRockMusic
How much did mario odyssey sell again?
MatsGry
Sad but true, the game would flop
djkhan23
I’d buy a Banjo Kazooie 1 remaster on day 1.
Just like Metroid Prime and will do so with Mario RPG.
47 Comments
If there’s no audience for Banjo-Kazooie, then I am dead.
Grant Kirkhope was never a dev….
[deleted]
That’s bullshit because if there can be an audience for something as mediocre as Yooka Laylee, then Banjo can have its time again.
I don’t know what this article claims but there’s a hour long interview with the producer and a few other devs and also the composer kirkhope talking about the games 25 year history.
They talk about the development cycle being very hard to reproduce to make a new entry and it’s something they’re not all that interested in chasing after, they’ve moved on.
There’s also a VGC accompanying article as well that details what they said… So once again, dunno wtf this article claims but that’s not quite in their words.
[Source of Article and Video](https://www.videogameschronicle.com/features/interviews/lying-to-nintendo-and-miyamoto-shame-banjo-kazooie-devs-reflect-on-its-25th/)
Former Rare Dev is colossal dumbass.
Former Rare Dev is colossal dumbass.
A few people won’t do for a company to make a whole game. The sales numbers must be HUGE for that. Maybe the former dev is right.
What the fuck are they talking about
Since most people didn’t actually read the article. It’s a quote from Grant Kirkhope, not a dev, but rather the composer
And here’s what he actually said
“I can’t really speak for Gregg (Mayles, Rare’s creative director) but he’s really the custodian of the franchise. He doesn’t really like to look back and tread over old ground, so I don’t think he’s ever been bothered about doing anything else with the franchise. He’d rather move on to new experiences – as far as he’s concerned, he’s been there, done that”.
“I think Rare would be open to somebody if they found the right team, but I don’t feel like that team exists. Also, I’m not convinced the audience is there either.”
So, yeah, clickbait article. Kirkhope just said he’s not convinced the audience exists, not that it is for sure not there.
Maybe this is part of the reason he’s a former Rare dev. Don’t listen to this man, he cray.
To former rare dev,
The fuck you just say?!
From everyone.
The first Yooka Laylee did alright. I like both N64 Banjos as much as the next millennial and I see their point.
If banjo was to get a new entry in the series what could be some new themes for worlds? I feel like they tried with 1 and 2 to not repeat worlds. They’ve done, Christmas, Halloween, Egypt, Mayan, shipyard, pirate island etc.
Some that come to mind:
– kazoo farm (world where kazooie grew up, classic old McDonald had a farm kinda vibe)
– banjo’s bayou (world where banjo grew up Louisiana souther style theme)
– Roman coliseum world
– valentine valley (world themed on love)
– some circus themed world
– casino world to pay homage to yooka laylee
Why don’t people actually name drop the dev in these headlines? Is it because they think it will gain less traction when they find out it’s just the series composer? No offense to Grant Kirkhope, he’s a lovely man, but his reasoning seems to be that he doesn’t have that many twitter followers, which is insane to me, twitter is but a fraction of the general audience and a lot of people are giving up on it anyway, and not that music composers aren’t important, but the number of people following a series composer is absolutely not indicative of the series popularity.
What a load of crap.. What it should read is “Brain dead music guy could careless what you like and is happy with trying to recapture the magic while failing hard at doing it”..
That’s better..
If Microsoft had a talented team make a new Banjo platformer that reviewed well, I think it would sell. It also doesn’t have to be some super high budget game. It would be the perfect mid-budget kind of title and would bring some much needed variety to their first party lineup. If they played their cards right, Banjo-Kazooie could be their own Mario or Ratchet & Clank. Instead they just straight abandoned the series just because fans didn’t want what the word thing they did with Nuts & Bolts and that sucks.
I thought the point of buying Rare was to bolster their first party lineup with some great IP but instead they just sat on it and let it become almost irrelevant to new generations. I don’t get it.
As someone who wasn’t a gamer during the collectathon era, I’d agree tbh. Collectathon platformers seem to me like a 90s fad and I don’t see them having much success attracting an audience that wasn’t already there in the 90s.
I’m going to actually give this a bit of thought, and try to rationalize the line of thinking.
First let me point out that this subreddit has bias in terms of seeing this as “a sure hit” when you’re in an echo chamber for fans.
Let’s make an assumption: The game would be Xbox/PC Exclusive.
Now, yes. Yooka-Laylee had a bit of an audience, but the fact is that being multi-platform helped. A LOT. It was able to be played by people on every platform, and not just Xbox.
Xbox IS selling less than PS5, it’s also not exactly a console that is marketed towards a more casual crowd. Yeah, you got Super Lucky’s Tale, but that’s about it.
Furthermore platformers are not the genre that they were back in 1997/2000. Plain and simple. Yes, Mario sells (he always has) and remakes do, but a new entry in a series that’s exclusive to a platform that’s not selling well?
Look, I doubt that this is just an opinion of a guy who made that statement up Willy-nilly. Companies do marketing research, and know what people want and don’t want. After the last game failed (regardless of why) it probably put a damper on anyone at rare thinking Banjo was gonna sell.
I could go on.
Banjo-Tooie is my favorite game of all time. I’d love to see a sequel, but I agree that the audience would be small.
3D platformer fans have that new IP from the sonic mania people coming, right?
I mean, I don’t think he is wrong. Yooka Laylee came out and it seems like very few people liked it despite the fact it was pretty much what a modern Banjo Kazooie game would be. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that either, the average taste changes all the time and the average person no longer wants collect-a-thon platformers.
That’s a load of bullshit for a headline.
Typical rage bait these days
Banjo has a massive economic handicap that is being tied to a platform brand that infamously doesn’t attract folks that play more than one or two types of game a year (usually racing, FPS, sports, or WRPGs) and historically doesn’t care to expand outside that niche. Crash fans better pray the buyout doesn’t go through since if you think Activision is a COD factory now wait until they ONLY have to worry about putting out a console selling COD every gen and don’t feel a need to put out other things as insurance in the event COD stops being a golden goose.
GIVE ME A NEW VIVA PINIATA
Me sitting here with all the Rare games and stuff I bought and after supporting Yooka Laylee:
“Am, Am I just a clown?”
Just re-master it and call it a day. Easy money.
Make a AAA Banjo game an exclusive to a Nintendo console and I guarantee you Nintendo buyers will come out and turn it into a 3 million seller
I’d buy it I miss these kind of games I’m not really a big fan of modern gaming all open world empty grind shit. Very few titles I still like
missing qualifier “on Xbox”
He’s right.
Aside from fans of the original game, who the hell would it appeal to? Who plays mascot platformers these days besides Mario, and the handful of sonic weirdos? Sure we got Kirby… and Ratchet and Clank I guess. But it’s just not the genre it was.
Yeah, platformers never sell anymore (looks at the millions of mario games that sell) ah, nevertheless
The truth is, they wouldnt know how to make a good game that lives up to and exceeds expectations. They would need to innovate in compelling and worthwhile ways. And i dont think anyone at rare has come up with one they want to invest in yet.
CONKERS NEW FURDAY
I recall him saying something similar during an explanation for the why (the criminally underrated and over hated) Banjo Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts was overhauled from its original design (traditional 3D action/platform game) into a game with more a focus on vehicle construction that we ended up with.
I don’t think he’s wrong, it’s just important to consider the context in which he’s saying it.
That generation was a massive shift in terms of how games were made and what audiences were looking for, so for Rare to create a game with an extra element to make it stand out is ultimately a move I (and I’m sure many others) can understand.
The sad fact is in 2008, 3D action platformers (with the exception of stuff like Super Mario Galaxy) simply weren’t the money makers they used to be, so for the game to have a shot at all, the devs did what Rare did best; they experimented.
Some would say they went way too far (I’d argue not coz I genuinely like Nuts & Bolts) but it does give perspective. But that was then.
Cut to now and things have changed with games like the Crash and Spyro remasters, Yooka Laylee, A Hat in Time and the upcoming Penny’s Big Breakaway, there’s definitely a few popping up, but they’re still not the juggernaut, genre-defining pioneers that the games of the late 90’s were; they’re RECAPTURING the magic, not innovating, because there’s only so much the 3D platform genre can do.
The big money makers atm are games with a focus on online multiplayer, so that’s where a lot of resources in the industry are going. Games are expensive to make nowadays, far more than they used to be, so it only makes sense to follow the money.
So with that in mind, you can understand where Kirkhope’s coming from. While a dedicated few would certainly cherish a new game (myself included like holy s*** I’d kill a man for Banjo 3) it just wouldn’t be enough to justify the cost it would take to develop it.
And who knows? Maybe Penny’s Big Breakaway will come out and break sales records, starting a genre focus shift among developers and causing more big-budget 3D platform games to be made, maybe it’d even catch Microsoft’s eyes enough for them to put Rare or whoever else onto developing a new Banjo.
Hell, the big reason they had Double Helix games make the 2013 Killer Instinct game, the first in decades, was entirely off the back of the enormous success of Street Fighter 4 (which many attribute to ‘resurrecting’ the genre in the late 2000’s), so with that in mind, a similar thing could happen.
But for now, the 3D platformer genre’s a quiet one, thus Banjo Kazooie, a pioneering game series of the genre, will remain quiet too.
How did Yooka-Laylee do? Moderately okay, right? He’s probably not wrong, it may be similar to Mirrors Edge where there’s a loud but small audience. I could be wrong, but I’d rather see a remake first.
I agree with this.
So today I’ve seen headlines that there’s no audience for Banjo-Kazooie and F-Zero would be too expensive to make, and it has been outclassed by Mario Kart.
A good day for retro Nintendo gaming fans. 😅
Being an Xbox exclusive is what will kill the game. There’s no hope there for that type of game. It’ll need to be released to the other consoles as well to have a chance
But there is a new audience for Conkers Bad Fur Day
A Hat in Time has sold more than a million copies across platforms and was largely inspired by Banjo Kazooie as well as Gamecube era adventure games. There is definitely a hunger for creative third person platformers, they just need a strong sense of identity and a world that is fun to explore.
I mean he is not wrong even in smash banjo got the lowest kind of engagement. He was a waste of slot. You barely see anyone play that thing compared to any other franchise that does have a vibrant or at least a consistent fanbase
Banjo basically is a (very easy and kid friendly) 3D Metroidvania. Considering how many Metroidvania games get released per year, there definitely is an audience.
As someone who grew up right after the collect-a-thon era I agree. That’s a really specific type of game that a really only a specific type of player cares about anymore. I don’t see anyone my age getting hyped for any games like that, it’s always people older than me. Mascot platformers are also kind of dead. Given the last few high profile games in this style had to be crowd funded, and still didn’t even sell very well if I remember correctly, I don’t think there’s an audience big enough for a major studio to invest in it.
I’m not even personally a fan of Banjo-Kazooie, yet I disagree.
You know why? Because Mario Odyssey plays more like a Banjo-Kazooie game than it does a Mario game in my opinion. I call it Banjo-Threeie. It is why I personally did not like Mario Odyssey because I’m not a fan of the Banjo-Kazooie style of gameplay, but I know that I’m in the minority on that. Many people loved Mario Odyssey and those same people would love a new Banjo-Kazooie.
I think there’s an audience for it. I wonder how well Yooka Laylee sold?
Edit: also, maybe because they are on the wrong platform… XBox isn’t the right audience for it but if they were still with Nintendo I bet it would sell a ton.
How much did mario odyssey sell again?
Sad but true, the game would flop
I’d buy a Banjo Kazooie 1 remaster on day 1.
Just like Metroid Prime and will do so with Mario RPG.