Legend of Zelda mastermind Eiji Aonuma says he always focuses on gameplay before story: “I’ve never really made a game where you think of the story first”
Legend of Zelda mastermind Eiji Aonuma says he always focuses on gameplay before story: “I’ve never really made a game where you think of the story first”
by Turbostrider27
43 Comments
jessej421
This is why I love Nintendo.
Saasori
We know Eiji, we know…
DeeFB
I wish they would focus on story a bit more sometimes, but I think at this point the only story-driven series we’re gonna get from an in-house team is another Famicom Detective Club entry.
Faelysis
As it should. There’s already enough game trying to be some interactive movie that having Nintendo focusing on gameplay is necessary in this industry.
TerribleTerabytes
I know this is a net positive because gameplay is what makes Nintendo games as good as they are….however I REALLY wish there was a better balance. I WANT World building, I want consistency, I want character development and I just want an immersive world that isn’t driven by people’s head canons. Gameplay should take priority, but it feels like it’s 80/20 when it should be 60/40.
Chilled_Noivern
Yeah, I finished Breath of the Wild last night…
It was fun, but sweet lord baby Jesus that ending was beyond frustrating.
AskinggAlesana
Those are my kind of games.
Like even with Mario and Luigi Brothership. The story isn’t the greatest but the combat is top notch.
Sentinel10
Yeah TotK made that painfully obvious.
I can’t think of another game that essentially spoils its main plot twist early depending on how you play.
IAmThePonch
Honestly though the stories usually turn out pretty cool anyways. Still, this is a good way of thinking and I think this mind set is a huge part of the long lasting nature of nintendos franchises
naynaythewonderhorse
Zelda fans don’t seem to realize that the “stories” are usually the same cookie-cutter outlines with a few changes here and there to spice things up.
Link (or Zelda, I guess) is made aware of some threat, has to collect 3 things a “false climax” happens, and then you have to collect MORE things. These adventures where you have to collect the things tend to be unrelated to each other, and never cross over.
Even when they are significantly different, the series as a whole remains a series of episodic adventures, with little relevance to a larger cohesive story.
I say this as a big Zelda fan.
Thebor3d
No wonder BotW and TotK were dogshit in terms of story.
Sonic10122
This is completely unsurprising but I’ve also got mixed feelings on it. On the one hand, this kind of gameplay design is part of what makes Nintendo who they are. But on the other hand, Zelda probably has some of the most interesting lore and worlds of Nintendo properties (the only real rival I can think of being Metroid), so I think more in depth stories COULD be a net positive…. I just think Nintendo would need some help on it.
Captain_Snowmonkey
Aka. Nintendo’s entire business model.
kpeds45
I mean, I spent about 130 hours dicking around in ToTk, and then about 10 actually focusing on the story, so I’d say keep doing what you’re doing Eiji.
FakePhillyCheezStake
Am I the only one who thinks these kinds of declarations are annoying?
Gameplay and story aren’t disconnected. A game with great mechanics but a really stupid story is not going to be fun to play. And vice-versa.
Why can’t the developers think of both?
Telethion
I know there’s a vocal section of the fanbase that hates Aonuma but I’ve loved these last few games and I’m ready for a new ~~director~~ Producer when they are but I wouldn’t mind a few more Aonuma-produced games.
Linkbetweentwirls
Its strange that this would come as a shock to zelda fans lol
NeedsMoreReeds
This has been the well-known philosophy of Nintendo (and Miyamoto in particular) for quite a while.
CheesecakeMilitia
Yoshiaki Koizumi was responsible for the weird and interesting stories of Link’s Awakening and Majora’s Mask
He asked Aonuma if he could direct his own Zelda game, and Aonuma supposedly said something like “over my dead body”
I always wish we had gotten to see that game. Of course gameplay comes first, but it’s not like your stories have to be a complete afterthought nothingburger, either, Aonuma. I’m playing Nine Sols right now (which has *excellent* writing alongside its top tier metroidvania/sekiro gameplay) and it’s funny how much I forget video games *can* have good storytelling until a game like this slaps me across the face.
ManiacalTeddy
And yet, the 3D Zeldas (up until BotW) had narratives that served as an excellent backbone to already great games. Stories don’t need to be complicated or intrusive, but the story and characters should be part of what drives someone to finish the adventure.
BotW was *fine*, but TotK’s story was uninteresting and poorly told. It seemed to disregard its predecessor and was happy to spoil the some fairly important moments simply because you could find cutscenes in any order. Sure, BotW did it too, but those events had long since happened and didn’t impact the story in the present. Plus, as it was contextualized as Link regaining his memory, it made sense he might not remember things in order. TotK’s memories though *should* impact the story, as the information Link gains should be useful on his quest, but he does nothing with it.
On top of that, there’s just so much left unanswered.
What drives this incarnation of Ganondorf? Why does Zelda’s sacrifice – which is supposed to be irreversible – get undone by two ghosts who have been dead for thousands of years? Doesn’t Link getting his old arm back invalidate him losing it in his attempt to save Zelda? (Not to mention his real arm would now be a downgrade).
Gameplay and mechanics should come first, absolutely, but having great mechanics is not an excuse to have a poor or poorly told narrative. Everything contributes to the experience of a game, and even something of less importance can sully the experience.
sleepmeld
I understand this thought, and I’m sure he will continue with this. But I do really feel like Skyward Sword was on another level, story-wise.
4umlurker
Gameplay gets people playing, but the story is useful to keep people invested. Look at how many people turned on TotK after the initial hype. The gameplay is fun but the lack of substance become more noticeable over a bit of time.
IThinkItsCute
Aonuma: We figure out the story after we figure out the gameplay; since we’re making something called a “game” that seems like a better approach, you know?
Gamers: THE ZELDA TEAM SAYS THEY DON’T CARE ABOUT THE STORY **AT ALL**, STOP TALKING ABOUT THE LORE IDIOTS THEY’VE NEVER HAD ANY LORE
juliusaurus
yeah, this is just… Nintendo, on the whole. Well, EPD anyway. ‘Form follows function’ is one of their general design philosophies, in addition to other principles such as “an idea is solving multiple problems at once” that dictate how they develop games.
Story would corner them into a wall in terms of coming up with new gameplay ideas, if they did it first and let it dictate their direction.
Paulsonmn31
Tbh anyone who hasn’t realized this hasn’t been paying attention to Zelda games for the past 20 years. Ever since Aonuma took over, it’s obvious gameplay has been paramount and the story an afterthought.
Robin_Gr
It’s pretty obvious. I love the series but it’s always felt a little under written in terms of plot and character arcs. But they have always been fun to play. And they still come out with industry impacting releases like botw all these years later.
Demurrzbz
Yeah and it shows
The_real_bandito
lol TotK is a great example on how you first do the game and then add the story later.
I swear, the dragon tears were added after the game is finished lol. Same with the intro and end. The intro was basically a tutorial on an island level and the way to ganon is basically a long road/corridor level to Ganon chamber lol.
But the game itself looks like it was designed and not just random objects added so that the game looks pretty.
GalacticShoestring
I think this really depends on the genre of game being made. For some, story is what sells the game. For others, a good story and compelling characters can turn a fun game into GOTY or even GOAT.
BishopofHippo93
I guess that explains why the writing of TotK was so weak. By the third identical sage monologue, I was just annoyed. I know you can tackle them in any order, but jfc is it so hard to tweak things even a little bit from one to the other? It was a fun game, but I just lost interest and couldn’t finish the game. BotW was at least fresh.
BradleyEd03
I think this is of course good but the stories in BOTW and TOTK weren’t great. There needs to be a balance. I had less and less motivation for each dungeon in TOTK especially since every single cutscene was practically identical.
CarbVan
The more time goes on the more I dislike this guy. Story SHOULD be important, or we get a dozen cutscene about the secret fucking stones and rehashes of the imprisoning war and an underutilized and weakly portrayed bad guy. Zelda should’ve evolved and become something like the God of War reboot but I’ve felt like the series has regressed once the Switch and BotW landed.
boseybur
Why was there so much unskipable dialog then!
RosePhox
That’s funny, considering Skyward Sword.
Like: I loved that game’s story but, just thinking of playing it again makes me wanna cry. God, that game sucked balls.
DrxBananaxSquid
I loved playing TOTK but the story really did hold the game back for me. They innovated a little when it came to the gameplay, but the story couldn’t even hold itself up to BOTW and the story there doesn’t really spark any talking points either.
My only hopes for TOTK was that we’d get more traditional dungeons as well as a better and different story. Instead got worse dungeons with a better coat of paint on them as well as the same story-ish but watered down even more.
They should really be focusing on both for the mainline 3D games.
jojofanxd
I feel like this works only for single games. A game like BoTW worked beautifully, but once ToTK released, while the gameplay was obviously good, it was the lack of story/ connections to the previous that robbed players of enjoyment. (Of course along with half baked areas like the depth and sky islands.)
AzrielBlanchard
You can tell.
Alloyd11
But you could do both, sure gameplay comes first but story is important to.
Stuuble
That’s the stupidest shit I’ve ever heard, I play Zelda for the story and world building, no wonder I hated totk
Unlikely_Worker4697
Zelda is my favorite game franchise of all time & I care about the story. There are a lot of Zelda fans who do. I just wish they understood you can have both – sure put gameplay first but then still put effort into the story too for the fans who do care about that. Having a good story does not have to take away from the gameplay…
MetaVaporeon
a line that looses a lot of meaning when the gameplay is already 90% there anyways… after the original, they had that hickup with zelda 2, but then it was topdown with only tools switching out a little, after oot, you had nearly all the gameplay for nearly two decades and most reused most of the known tools or only switched it up a little. i.e. rope or double hookshot.
botw sure, that was one where gameplay made sense to think about first.
but after that, when most of it is a given going forward, you can’t just act as if the story is only an afterthought, its the main thing on these follow ups with similar structure after ensuring controls are mechanically sound.
not to mention, overall, gameplay and story are kind of disconnected anyways. wether you go to the twilight realm with midna or a hypothetical world of light with the sun sprite doesnt really make a difference after all, its all light and shadow world after all.
43 Comments
This is why I love Nintendo.
We know Eiji, we know…
I wish they would focus on story a bit more sometimes, but I think at this point the only story-driven series we’re gonna get from an in-house team is another Famicom Detective Club entry.
As it should. There’s already enough game trying to be some interactive movie that having Nintendo focusing on gameplay is necessary in this industry.
I know this is a net positive because gameplay is what makes Nintendo games as good as they are….however I REALLY wish there was a better balance. I WANT World building, I want consistency, I want character development and I just want an immersive world that isn’t driven by people’s head canons. Gameplay should take priority, but it feels like it’s 80/20 when it should be 60/40.
Yeah, I finished Breath of the Wild last night…
It was fun, but sweet lord baby Jesus that ending was beyond frustrating.
Those are my kind of games.
Like even with Mario and Luigi Brothership. The story isn’t the greatest but the combat is top notch.
Yeah TotK made that painfully obvious.
I can’t think of another game that essentially spoils its main plot twist early depending on how you play.
Honestly though the stories usually turn out pretty cool anyways. Still, this is a good way of thinking and I think this mind set is a huge part of the long lasting nature of nintendos franchises
Zelda fans don’t seem to realize that the “stories” are usually the same cookie-cutter outlines with a few changes here and there to spice things up.
Link (or Zelda, I guess) is made aware of some threat, has to collect 3 things a “false climax” happens, and then you have to collect MORE things. These adventures where you have to collect the things tend to be unrelated to each other, and never cross over.
Even when they are significantly different, the series as a whole remains a series of episodic adventures, with little relevance to a larger cohesive story.
I say this as a big Zelda fan.
No wonder BotW and TotK were dogshit in terms of story.
This is completely unsurprising but I’ve also got mixed feelings on it. On the one hand, this kind of gameplay design is part of what makes Nintendo who they are. But on the other hand, Zelda probably has some of the most interesting lore and worlds of Nintendo properties (the only real rival I can think of being Metroid), so I think more in depth stories COULD be a net positive…. I just think Nintendo would need some help on it.
Aka. Nintendo’s entire business model.
I mean, I spent about 130 hours dicking around in ToTk, and then about 10 actually focusing on the story, so I’d say keep doing what you’re doing Eiji.
Am I the only one who thinks these kinds of declarations are annoying?
Gameplay and story aren’t disconnected. A game with great mechanics but a really stupid story is not going to be fun to play. And vice-versa.
Why can’t the developers think of both?
I know there’s a vocal section of the fanbase that hates Aonuma but I’ve loved these last few games and I’m ready for a new ~~director~~ Producer when they are but I wouldn’t mind a few more Aonuma-produced games.
Its strange that this would come as a shock to zelda fans lol
This has been the well-known philosophy of Nintendo (and Miyamoto in particular) for quite a while.
Yoshiaki Koizumi was responsible for the weird and interesting stories of Link’s Awakening and Majora’s Mask
He asked Aonuma if he could direct his own Zelda game, and Aonuma supposedly said something like “over my dead body”
I always wish we had gotten to see that game. Of course gameplay comes first, but it’s not like your stories have to be a complete afterthought nothingburger, either, Aonuma. I’m playing Nine Sols right now (which has *excellent* writing alongside its top tier metroidvania/sekiro gameplay) and it’s funny how much I forget video games *can* have good storytelling until a game like this slaps me across the face.
And yet, the 3D Zeldas (up until BotW) had narratives that served as an excellent backbone to already great games. Stories don’t need to be complicated or intrusive, but the story and characters should be part of what drives someone to finish the adventure.
BotW was *fine*, but TotK’s story was uninteresting and poorly told. It seemed to disregard its predecessor and was happy to spoil the some fairly important moments simply because you could find cutscenes in any order. Sure, BotW did it too, but those events had long since happened and didn’t impact the story in the present. Plus, as it was contextualized as Link regaining his memory, it made sense he might not remember things in order. TotK’s memories though *should* impact the story, as the information Link gains should be useful on his quest, but he does nothing with it.
On top of that, there’s just so much left unanswered.
What drives this incarnation of Ganondorf? Why does Zelda’s sacrifice – which is supposed to be irreversible – get undone by two ghosts who have been dead for thousands of years? Doesn’t Link getting his old arm back invalidate him losing it in his attempt to save Zelda? (Not to mention his real arm would now be a downgrade).
Gameplay and mechanics should come first, absolutely, but having great mechanics is not an excuse to have a poor or poorly told narrative. Everything contributes to the experience of a game, and even something of less importance can sully the experience.
I understand this thought, and I’m sure he will continue with this. But I do really feel like Skyward Sword was on another level, story-wise.
Gameplay gets people playing, but the story is useful to keep people invested. Look at how many people turned on TotK after the initial hype. The gameplay is fun but the lack of substance become more noticeable over a bit of time.
Aonuma: We figure out the story after we figure out the gameplay; since we’re making something called a “game” that seems like a better approach, you know?
Gamers: THE ZELDA TEAM SAYS THEY DON’T CARE ABOUT THE STORY **AT ALL**, STOP TALKING ABOUT THE LORE IDIOTS THEY’VE NEVER HAD ANY LORE
yeah, this is just… Nintendo, on the whole. Well, EPD anyway. ‘Form follows function’ is one of their general design philosophies, in addition to other principles such as “an idea is solving multiple problems at once” that dictate how they develop games.
Story would corner them into a wall in terms of coming up with new gameplay ideas, if they did it first and let it dictate their direction.
Tbh anyone who hasn’t realized this hasn’t been paying attention to Zelda games for the past 20 years. Ever since Aonuma took over, it’s obvious gameplay has been paramount and the story an afterthought.
It’s pretty obvious. I love the series but it’s always felt a little under written in terms of plot and character arcs. But they have always been fun to play. And they still come out with industry impacting releases like botw all these years later.
Yeah and it shows
lol TotK is a great example on how you first do the game and then add the story later.
I swear, the dragon tears were added after the game is finished lol. Same with the intro and end. The intro was basically a tutorial on an island level and the way to ganon is basically a long road/corridor level to Ganon chamber lol.
But the game itself looks like it was designed and not just random objects added so that the game looks pretty.
I think this really depends on the genre of game being made. For some, story is what sells the game. For others, a good story and compelling characters can turn a fun game into GOTY or even GOAT.
I guess that explains why the writing of TotK was so weak. By the third identical sage monologue, I was just annoyed. I know you can tackle them in any order, but jfc is it so hard to tweak things even a little bit from one to the other? It was a fun game, but I just lost interest and couldn’t finish the game. BotW was at least fresh.
I think this is of course good but the stories in BOTW and TOTK weren’t great. There needs to be a balance. I had less and less motivation for each dungeon in TOTK especially since every single cutscene was practically identical.
The more time goes on the more I dislike this guy. Story SHOULD be important, or we get a dozen cutscene about the secret fucking stones and rehashes of the imprisoning war and an underutilized and weakly portrayed bad guy. Zelda should’ve evolved and become something like the God of War reboot but I’ve felt like the series has regressed once the Switch and BotW landed.
Why was there so much unskipable dialog then!
That’s funny, considering Skyward Sword.
Like: I loved that game’s story but, just thinking of playing it again makes me wanna cry. God, that game sucked balls.
I loved playing TOTK but the story really did hold the game back for me. They innovated a little when it came to the gameplay, but the story couldn’t even hold itself up to BOTW and the story there doesn’t really spark any talking points either.
My only hopes for TOTK was that we’d get more traditional dungeons as well as a better and different story. Instead got worse dungeons with a better coat of paint on them as well as the same story-ish but watered down even more.
They should really be focusing on both for the mainline 3D games.
I feel like this works only for single games. A game like BoTW worked beautifully, but once ToTK released, while the gameplay was obviously good, it was the lack of story/ connections to the previous that robbed players of enjoyment. (Of course along with half baked areas like the depth and sky islands.)
You can tell.
But you could do both, sure gameplay comes first but story is important to.
That’s the stupidest shit I’ve ever heard, I play Zelda for the story and world building, no wonder I hated totk
Zelda is my favorite game franchise of all time & I care about the story. There are a lot of Zelda fans who do. I just wish they understood you can have both – sure put gameplay first but then still put effort into the story too for the fans who do care about that. Having a good story does not have to take away from the gameplay…
a line that looses a lot of meaning when the gameplay is already 90% there anyways… after the original, they had that hickup with zelda 2, but then it was topdown with only tools switching out a little, after oot, you had nearly all the gameplay for nearly two decades and most reused most of the known tools or only switched it up a little. i.e. rope or double hookshot.
botw sure, that was one where gameplay made sense to think about first.
but after that, when most of it is a given going forward, you can’t just act as if the story is only an afterthought, its the main thing on these follow ups with similar structure after ensuring controls are mechanically sound.
not to mention, overall, gameplay and story are kind of disconnected anyways. wether you go to the twilight realm with midna or a hypothetical world of light with the sun sprite doesnt really make a difference after all, its all light and shadow world after all.
… I never would have guessed.
You don’t say!