Not sure if this was a concept known in the fandom, or just from my old schoolyard days, but I remember as a kid hearing mention about Rhydon being the one Pokemon that was practically meant to take out Charizard in a battle due to types and attacks. Those that played Red and Blue version with a Charmander starter called it the “Charizard Killer”. Definitely was surprised to see years later a similar vibe given in the Pokemon Origins Anime! But definitely curious if Rhydon was considered the foil to the prized Fire starter’s Final Evolution, what Pokemon might be considered that to the other two (Blastoise/Vesuaur)?
by PreacherOfCreatures
28 Comments
Gamefreak
Blastoise: Venusaur. It has leech seed and access to toxic to get around blastoise’s massive (for gen 1) defenses and a high enough special stat pre-split to comfortably tank blizzards/icebeams. The only other type advantage gen 1 mon with enough juice to heavily counter blastoise is Zapdos (magneton wasn’t super bulky without the steel type, electrode has the speed but not a great move pool or attack/special, raichu sucked until it got an alolan form, vileplume has the bulk but didn’t have the move pool outside toxic and petal dance).
According to smogon Gengar hard counters Venusaur in gen 1
Jolteon probably is best against Blastoise
Alakazam was a great Gen1 counter to Venusaur. Using the move Psychic was killer. Especially since Alakazam’s special stat was over the top and Psychic was a Special move. Gengar was solid.
Charizard with flamethrower or Fire Blast was a good counter (from my own experience).
This just reminded me that Kabutops, Omastar and Aerodactyl didn’t learn Rock-type moves at all in gen 1. I guess it makes sense that some people would consider Rhydon to be Charizard’s best counter.
Almost any rock type (or anything that learns Rock Slide, to be more precise) wipes the floor with Charizard in gen1. Rhydon is just the best rock type.
Charizard is the only one of the three starters with a 4x weakness, so the other two aren’t hard-countered by anything quite as much.
In my city, omastar was the Charizard killer, to the point no one had Charizard in the team
>due to it’s type and attacks
You mean being a rock type that actually had rock type moves
Blastoise might be Lapras. Resists both water and ice, can’t be frozen, learns Thunderbolt and Sing. So Blastoise can’t really do *anything* to Lapras, while Lapras can do some decent damage back and put Blastoise to sleep.
Looking at Gen 1 specifically, where Blizzard is hilariously OP.
Alakazam. it’s fast and has stab psychic. Not to mention psychic type is busted in gen 1
Jolteon or Raichu > Blastoise
Moltres, Arcanine, Alakazam or Mewtwo > Venusaur.
Jynx hard counters venasaur based on type. I suppose jolteon would be a good counter for blastoise
I think Dragonite is probably the best counter to Venosaur. Hes 4x resistant to grass, is a physical attacker, gets stab flying moves and can learn fire punch.
My follow up would be Arcanine.
The main things im looking at are physical attackers with type advantages.
All rock types are a charizard killer
For blastoise and vensaur, i think a fast poke with a type advantage would be the killer, i propose zapdos, cause it can kill two starters with one stone
Also i love zapdos
Magmar for Venasaur, Electabuzz for Blastoise
lol this was on my feed immediately after Tyson slapping Jake Paul. Someone fix it with the duet or whatever that crap is
Rhydon’s head does a 180° turn in this clip lol.
For gen 1, Electrode having a high base speed stat meant that it had a good chance of OHKO’ing Blastoise with a crit Thunderbolt.
As for Venusaur, literally every special attacker that got Fire Blast or Psychic. Most outspeed Venusaur, so it didn’t have a chance to 1v1 any of them without Sleep Powder.
I’m going to go with Alakazam for Venusaur because it is fast and has an insanely high special stat so it’s super effective psychic is a nightmare for venusaur.
For Blastoise I would probably choose Jolteon. I was thinking Exeggutor because of sleep and grass resisting water, but Blastoise is faster than eggy and can hit back with ice beam. Jolteon is faster than Blastoise and has a high special attack.
IMO,
Rhydon > Charizard
Alakazam > Venusaur
Jolteon > Blastoise
Plus, all three of them are in OU, so even though Alakazam is a bit of a cliche choice, these three pokemon are of similar calibre.
Rhydon is 6’3″
Charizard is 5’7″
Idk how Charizard is punching down on this dude.
*Anime*
Jolteon outspeeds and reliably hits super effective stab thunderbolt for massive damage and a likely 1 shot on Blastoise.
Same with Alakazam using Psychic on Venasaur
Having defensive resistances only matters if you cannot out-speed and OHKO
For Blastoise? It’s Starmie. Blastoise can’t hit it with super effective damage, but Starmie can hit back with thunder/thunderbolt. I knew a kid in the playground who used to have a full water team, and the least of your worries were the ‘scary’ monsters like Gyarados, Blastoise and Omastar. Starmie was a monster back in the day.
For Venusaur, probably Exeggutor. Resists grass and can punt it back with Psychic.
Heck, Starmie running boltbeam/surf/psychic can destroy the starter trio.
I got to say, I am impressed with the variety of answers here! I was thinking it was going to be a quick comment or two saying it was simply Magmar beats Venusar with Fire Punch, while Electabuzz uses Thunder Punch to take out Blastoise.
Instead I find there’s actually quite a fun variety of answers that has me on a nostalgia trip!
Can definitely see Gengar, Alakazam, and Jolteon being prime examples. Certainly can recall an instance where Starmie with Thunderbolt was a fun surprise on the playground battles. That and how young me struggled one time facing a Lapras with a Blastoise in the Lorelei battle. And shoutouts to those that use Jynx as I remember her being a useful Pokemon with psychic and ice attacks!
But most of all, thank you everyone for your great insight as it’s given me a lot to think about with the early Gen1 mechanics! Certainly has me wondering if there might be any other such Pokemon matchups in the other generations!
Blastoise: Starmie. Only weak to Bite, resists its STAB and some of its more powerful moves, can Thunderbolt and Recover it into the floor. Not as bad as Rhydon, but certainly noteworthy
Venusaur: Gengar. Resists STAB and learns Psychic to hit it hard, is immune to most of its coverage moves
For Venusaur I’d say Golbat (1/4 Resistant to Grass, 1/2 Resistant to Poison, x2 Super-Effective Flying STAB).
Blastoise has none.
Charizard – Rhydon
Venusaur – Magmar
Blastoise – Electibuzz
Charizard, being Fire/Flying, is 4x weak to rock, and Rhydon is resistant against both fire and flying.
Venusaur, being Grass/Psychic, doesn’t have any designed 4x weaknesses (a glitch gives it 4x to bug in gen 1 though), but has worse defense than special defense, and is weak to flying (a physical type in gen 1), I’d say that Dodrio is thus the best counter. good attack, better speed than venusaur, between drill peck and fly, two solid flying attacks, resistant to grass (which, with the lack of good poison attacks in gen 1, means resistant to venusaur’s attacks). being able to fly with higher speed also means if venusaur uses solar beam, the next turn you just fly and dodge it.
Blastoise is unique in that it’s the non dual-type of the three. realistically, having higher speed, good special (for the electric and grass attacks that are super effective), and ideally a typing that resists water. it happens amusingly, that the only one of that in gen 1 is Venusaur. 80 speed vs 78, 100 special vs 85, and enough grass moves to cut that turtle up.
if we have to ignore venusaur, then jolteon is probably the next best, while it doesn’t resist water, it has enough speed, special, and no weakness to ice beam (like zapdos has).
Venusaur is eaten alive by either Alakazam or Gengar
Blastoise can do nothing to Lapras